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Message #53806 of 54591
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Date: 1969-12-31
From: Message-ID
Subject: ed:Message-ID:From:To:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Trans

I have one question that comes from a long time understanding (or perhaps 
misconception) concerning diesel v. gasoline...

1)  Diesel has a higher energy content per gallon than gasoline  (confirmed 
in email below)
2)  Diesel is not as highly refined as gasoline  (confirmed in email below)
3)  You get *MORE* diesel per gallon of crude oil than gasoline since 
gasoline is more highly refined, thus removing more actual content from the 
crude oil.  (seems to be the logical conclusion of #1 and #2)
4)  Wasn't it 2000 or 2001 that VW had the lowest pollution (non-hybird, 
non-electric) vehicle being sold in the USA ... the Golf Diesel?  And 
despite being the lowest polluting, California banned its sale because it 
was a diesel!!

If #3 is not true, then can you explain how it actually takes more crude oil 
per gallon of refined fuel to produce diesel than gasoline?

Also, what is the energy input per gallon of gasoline for the additives that 
are used (detergents, anti-knock formulations, ethanol, etc) compared to 
those added to diesel?

Thanks,

Randall
Charlotte, NC


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "MH" 
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2005 12:05 PM
Subject: [Biofuel] diesel vs. gasoline fuels & bike commuting


> Grist Magazine
> 11.07.05
> http://www.workingforchange.com/article.cfm?itemid=19847
>
> Ask Umbra:
> Topping it off On diesel vs. standard gasoline cars;
> plus, bike commuting
>
> Q. Dear Umbra,
>
> I've always heard bad things about diesel fuel.
> However, I know someone who has a diesel VW that
> gets 50 miles to the gallon. I'm wondering if you
> could do a cost-benefit analysis for me. I know
> I can't afford a hybrid anytime soon, and was
> wondering if it would be better to buy a used
> diesel car that gets excellent gas mileage or
> a regular used car that gets in the
> 30 to 40 mpg range.
>
> Anne
> Nelson, N.H.
>
> A. Dearest Anne,
>
> Unless you can get alternative diesel fuel,
> stick with a standard gasoline car.
>
> Regular readers will predict my research maneuver
> here: we go right back to my mad crush on the
> Union of Concerned Scientists. (Ooh la la!) Their
> Clean Vehicles site is a hotbed of romance, where
> we can find such steamy novellas as
> "The Diesel Dilemma: Diesel's Role in the Race for Clean Cars."
> I learned quite a bit from this page-turner.
>
> Here's a summary: Diesel engines go farther on a gallon of
> fuel than standard gasoline engines because of their design,
> and because of the higher energy density of a gallon of diesel fuel.
> But it takes more oil to manufacture a gallon of diesel than a
> gallon of standard gasoline, and the production and refining processes
> for diesel produce more heat- trapping gases. So when you're considering
> the relative merits of diesel and non-diesel cars (like your friend's
> VW and your regular alternative), UCS suggests knocking the
> mpg estimates for the diesel car down by 20 percent to account for
> those impacts. Since a diesel vehicle will also cost you more,
> you'll get more bang for your buck from an efficient gasoline car
> if you're concerned about fending off global warming, UCS says.
>
> And the nasty rumors about diesel are true:
> It's less refined than gasoline, aka dirtier.
> Diesel cars emit substantially more particulate matter and NOx,
> both of which are serious air pollutants and health hazards.
> Current passenger diesel engines are more polluting per mile driven
> than gasoline models. And no diesels currently make it into the
> American Council for an Energy-Efficient Economy's Green Book.
>
> Now, using biodiesel will improve this situation, and remove you from
> U.S. oil policy as much as is possible in a passenger vehicle.
> If biodiesel is available nearby, you will still need to closely
> examine whether a diesel is the car for you: Given your budget,
> which models can you actually afford? What is their mpg?
> Will the engine block need to be plugged in during the winter months,
> and is this a deterrent for you?
>
> If you would like to understand the details better or
> hear about the future of diesel regulations and technologies,
> read UCS's report [PDF] or report summary [PDF], which contain
> shocking plot revelations. For example, Europe is not perfect.
> In fact, though assumers such as myself may have thought,
> "[Lots of diesels in Europe] + [Green Europe beats stupid U.S.] = [Diesel 
> good],"
> this is an erroneous leap. The true equation is:
> "[Euro-subsidized diesel] + [Mediocre Euro tailpipe regs] = [Diesel still 
> bad]."
>
> Mathematically,
> Umbra
>
> Q. Dear Umbra,
>
> So what about bike commuting? Is it safe?
> Is it good? Is it encouraged?
>
> P.K. Borzo
> St. Paul, Minn.
>
> A. Dearest P.K.,
>
> Yes, yes, yes. Lungwise, biking is at least as safe as driving,
> if not more so. It's true, as many readers pointed out after my
> previous column, that we breathe more heavily when bicycling
> than driving. But the scientists thought of that. In general,
> we are not worse off biking in regular old city traffic,
> especially if we are able to stay to the side of the
> pollutant slipstream. Of course, there are a lot of
> variables - if you're still worried, you could always wear a mask.
>
> Is biking safe in other ways? I don't know what to say to that.
> I think accident and injury statistics are essentially meaningless
> when applied to our own individual choices. Car accidents happen often,
> but we don't consider them until that sickening crunch intrudes on our
> safety delusion. Likewise, no numbers will stop a determined cyclist.
>
> If you intend to start a biking habit, use common sense.
> Evaluate your own confidence, and use the experience of others.
> If people cycle in St. Paul, but you never see a single cyclist on
> the route you would take to work, find out where a decent bike route is.
> Ask fellow cyclists whether they consider your route safe. Find the
> bike lanes, the roads with good shoulders. Every major city has a
> bicycling coalition devoted to helping people like you, and some cities,
> including yours, publish route maps. And think about your local drivers.
> Seattle drivers are completely spaced out, never use their turn signals,
> and can't plan ahead in traffic. They enrage me, but they are aware of
> and expect cyclists on the roadway. New York drivers, on the other hand,
> see everything on the road as an obstacle -- but their reflexes are 
> excellent.
> I expect Twin City drivers are courteous and predictable, given Minnesota 
> stereotypes.
>
> If you are hit by a car or skid on a rainy street, you will feel
> endangered, injured, terrified and stupid. That's true of any transit 
> accident.
> On the plus side, it is unlikely that you will maim anyone but yourself, 
> and
> very unlikely that you will be the target of a terrorist attack. You will 
> lose
> weight and save money, and perhaps get the high honor of being considered 
> a wacko.
> The wackos live longest, my friend.
>
> In solidarity,
> Umbra
>
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>
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>
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> 


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