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Date: 2006-01-04
From: Joe Street
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] US Guvmint to tax alternate fuel vehicles?
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From: Joe Street
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] US Guvmint to tax alternate fuel vehicles?
Click here for more on this subject
This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============0402061944== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------000301050005000403050102" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------000301050005000403050102 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well after all I've invested into this endeavour the car, the processor, the time, effort, my domain name, not to mention the pain I have endured ( every time I read one of Mike's messages it seems my eyeballs roll further and further back into my head - it hurts) it seems a forgone conclusion that I would join an advocacy group. Joe Mike Weaver wrote: >All kidding aside, do the members of this list think the idea of an >advocacy group to defend BD has merit, and more importantly >would anyone pay to be a member? > >-Mike > >Doug Turner wrote: > > > >>Hi Mike, >> >> Just waiting for the movie, "Attack of the Grease People." It's bound >>to be a cult classic. >> >> Doug >> >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Mike Weaver" >>To: >>Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 10:48 AM >>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] US Guvmint to tax alternate fuel vehicles? >> >> >> >> >> >> >>>Nah, >>> >>>when it comes it'll be from two directions: >>> >>>The trap grease people will get together as soon as they really start >>>feeling the bite from home-brewers, and get legislation passed that >>>declares WVO dangerous and in need of special handling. This will >>>require fairly expensive equipment and insurance the average home-brewer >>>can't afford. There will be a few high profile lawsuits and we'll get >>>the message and give up. This will probably be aided and abetted by Big >>>Oil, who will get in bed with or just buy out the grease people. >>> >>>Oh, they'll find someone somewhere who has injured himself making BD and >>>trumpet it all over the place. >>> >>>The logical thing to do would be for the homebrewers to organize now and >>>set up an organization to counter this. Everyone will be in favor of >>>it, but no one will be willing to part with 50.00 for dues. United we >>>could stand, divided we'll fall. >>> >>>"When Biodiesel is outlawed, only outlaws will make Biodiesel" >>> >>>Mike "been living in Washington DC for too long" Weaver >>> >>>Joe Street wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>I'm just wondering what people on this list think they will do if the >>>>winds of change blow cold on the home brew community? Suppose at some >>>>point your government decides to take strong action to discourage or >>>>prevent you from making your own fuel. I know that collectively there >>>>are a lot of us but we are spread pretty thin here and there around >>>>the planet. Solidarity amongst home brewers I'm sure doesn't account >>>>for a huge influence in any particular country or region at this >>>>point. I'm sure any of us who have invested the time, money and >>>>effort to be doing what we are doing will be more than just >>>>disappointed if legislation is enacted in favor of big energy >>>>suppliers to the detriment of our sustainability and environmental >>>>ideals. But what can we do though? I feel I am very fortunate because >>>>in my case, since I work at a university which supports my research >>>>into alternative energy solutions, I can claim I am driving a research >>>>vehicle which affords me quite a bit of latitude as far as this issue >>>>is concerned. I am just wondering if a possible solution to this >>>>potential problem might be for people like myself to create some sort >>>>of registry so that I can claim not only that I drive a research >>>>vehicle but that it is part of a worldwide fleet of such vehicles >>>>thereby strengthening not only my case but also that of everyone else >>>>registered on the site as well. >>>>Comments? >>>> >>>>Joe >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>David Miller wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>Joe Street wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>Oh I thought from the previous post it meant that taxed fuel is dyed. >>>>>>So then on a spot inspection how is anyone to know if you are using >>>>>>taxed fuel or home brew anyways? (assuming it is not B100 which could >>>>>>be identified by smell alone) Why worry about it then? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>I doubt if many (bio)diesel car owners worry about it at all. Diesel >>>>>car owners are such small pickins next to a company running a fleet of >>>>>trucks that I've never seen or even heard of someone being tested. I >>>>>know a number of them who regularly use heating oil or K1 (with the dye) >>>>>in their cars without concern. I don't do it because to it's not worth >>>>>saving thirty cents a gallon if it means having to drain it out of the >>>>>tank in 5 gallon buckets and pour it into the car. It's nice to know I >>>>>have the reserve though. >>>>> >>>>>Biodiesel is attractive for other reasons; I wouldn't save enough money >>>>>in a long time to make it worthwhile financially. >>>>> >>>>>--- David >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>Joe >>>>>> >>>>>>David Miller wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>Joe Street wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Why not just add some of the dye yourself ......doh! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>Because here in the states they put the dye in the untaxed fuel (HHO, >>>>>>>K1), not in the stuff that's taxed. So adding dye would be a way of >>>>>>>saying that you didn't pay taxes on fuel that you actually had. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>--- David >>>>>>> >>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>Biofuel mailing list >>>>>>>Biofuel.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.or >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>g >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >>>>>>>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>messages): >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel.org/ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>Biofuel mailing list >>>>>>Biofuel.org >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >>>>>>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html >>>>>> >>>>>>Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>messages): >> >> >> >> >>>>>>http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel.org/ >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>Biofuel mailing list >>>>>Biofuel.org >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >>>>>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html >>>>> >>>>>Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>messages): >> >> >> >> >>>>>http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel.org/ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>Biofuel mailing list >>>>Biofuel.org >>>>http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org >>>> >>>>Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >>>>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html >>>> >>>>Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>messages): >> >> >> >> >>>>http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel.org/ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>Biofuel mailing list >>>Biofuel.org >>>http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org >>> >>>Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >>>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html >>> >>>Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>messages): >> >> >> >> >>>http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel.org/ >>> >>> >>> >>> >>_______________________________________________ >>Biofuel mailing list >>Biofuel.org >>http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org >> >>Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html >> >>Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): >>http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel.org/ >> >> >> >> > > > >_______________________________________________ >Biofuel mailing list >Biofuel.org >http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org > >Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > >Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): >http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel.org/ > > > > --------------000301050005000403050102 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well after all I've invested into this endeavour the car, the processor, the time, effort, my domain name, not to mention the pain I have endured ( every time I read one of Mike's messages it seems my eyeballs roll further and further back into my head - it hurts) it seems a forgone conclusion that I would join an advocacy group.
Joe
Mike Weaver wrote:
All kidding aside, do the members of this list think the idea of an advocacy group to defend BD has merit, and more importantly would anyone pay to be a member? -Mike Doug Turner wrote:Hi Mike, Just waiting for the movie, "Attack of the Grease People." It's bound to be a cult classic. Doug ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Weaver" <mweaver.net> To: <Biofuel.org> Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 10:48 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] US Guvmint to tax alternate fuel vehicles?Nah, when it comes it'll be from two directions: The trap grease people will get together as soon as they really start feeling the bite from home-brewers, and get legislation passed that declares WVO dangerous and in need of special handling. This will require fairly expensive equipment and insurance the average home-brewer can't afford. There will be a few high profile lawsuits and we'll get the message and give up. This will probably be aided and abetted by Big Oil, who will get in bed with or just buy out the grease people. Oh, they'll find someone somewhere who has injured himself making BD and trumpet it all over the place. The logical thing to do would be for the homebrewers to organize now and set up an organization to counter this. Everyone will be in favor of it, but no one will be willing to part with 50.00 for dues. United we could stand, divided we'll fall. "When Biodiesel is outlawed, only outlaws will make Biodiesel" Mike "been living in Washington DC for too long" Weaver Joe Street wrote:I'm just wondering what people on this list think they will do if the winds of change blow cold on the home brew community? Suppose at some point your government decides to take strong action to discourage or prevent you from making your own fuel. I know that collectively there are a lot of us but we are spread pretty thin here and there around the planet. Solidarity amongst home brewers I'm sure doesn't account for a huge influence in any particular country or region at this point. I'm sure any of us who have invested the time, money and effort to be doing what we are doing will be more than just disappointed if legislation is enacted in favor of big energy suppliers to the detriment of our sustainability and environmental ideals. But what can we do though? I feel I am very fortunate because in my case, since I work at a university which supports my research into alternative energy solutions, I can claim I am driving a research vehicle which affords me quite a bit of latitude as far as this issue is concerned. I am just wondering if a possible solution to this potential problem might be for people like myself to create some sort of registry so that I can claim not only that I drive a research vehicle but that it is part of a worldwide fleet of such vehicles thereby strengthening not only my case but also that of everyone else registered on the site as well. Comments? Joe David Miller wrote:Joe Street wrote:Oh I thought from the previous post it meant that taxed fuel is dyed. So then on a spot inspection how is anyone to know if you are using taxed fuel or home brew anyways? (assuming it is not B100 which could be identified by smell alone) Why worry about it then?I doubt if many (bio)diesel car owners worry about it at all. Diesel car owners are such small pickins next to a company running a fleet of trucks that I've never seen or even heard of someone being tested. I know a number of them who regularly use heating oil or K1 (with the dye) in their cars without concern. I don't do it because to it's not worth saving thirty cents a gallon if it means having to drain it out of the tank in 5 gallon buckets and pour it into the car. It's nice to know I have the reserve though. Biodiesel is attractive for other reasons; I wouldn't save enough money in a long time to make it worthwhile financially. --- DavidJoe David Miller wrote:Joe Street wrote:Why not just add some of the dye yourself ......doh!Because here in the states they put the dye in the untaxed fuel (HHO, K1), not in the stuff that's taxed. So adding dye would be a way of saying that you didn't pay taxes on fuel that you actually had. --- David _______________________________________________ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel.org/------------------------------------------------------------------------_______________________________________________ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel.org/_______________________________________________ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel.org/------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel.org/_______________________________________________ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel.org/_______________________________________________ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel.org/_______________________________________________ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel.org/--------------000301050005000403050102-- --===============0402061944== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel.org/ --===============0402061944==--
